From an April 5 interview with Omar Bakri Muhammad, a suspected member of Al-Qaeda and head of Al Muhajiroun, a radical Islamic group based in London. Of the eight suspects arrested on March 30 for planning to execute a terrorist attack in London, seven are known to have been Muhammad's protégés. The interview was conducted by Paulo Moura and appeared in the April 18 edition of Publico, a Portuguese daily.

Q. Your home is full of books. Are all of them about Islam?

Yes. All of my six thousand books. Except for that one [British Law], which was given to me, but it's simply pathetic.

Q. How can one live in the United Kingdom without accepting British law?

It's forbidden for Muslims to obey man-made laws.

Q. You say you want to see the Islamic flag flying at Number 10 Downing Street. Is that a dream or an agenda?

I believe that one day it will happen, because this is my country. I like living here. God said: "Don't live among nonbelievers unless you call for their conversion."

Q. Were the 9/11 attacks legitimate?

Sure they were. America attacked Somalia, Sudan, Iraq. If you attack any Muslim in any place, it's like you attack them all in all places. They have the right to retaliate, but not where they are under the covenant of security. A Muslim can never be involved in a terrorist attack in the country where he is living legally.

Q. So a Muslim from the U.K. can't carry out a terrorist attack here, but if he goes to a foreign country...

That is another story.

Q. What could justify the deliberate killing of thousands of innocent civilians?

We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and nonbelievers. And the life of a non-believer has no value. There's no sanctity in it.

Q. But there were Muslims among the victims.

According to Islam, Muslims who die in attacks will be accepted immediately into paradise as martyrs. As for the others, it is their problem.

Q. Is there any difference between incurring civilian casualties in attacking military target and attacking civilians as a target?

We are not hypocrites. We don't say: "I'm sorry, it was a mistake." We say: "You deserved it." We assume the purpose is to kill as many people as possible, to spread the terror, so that people in the West think: "Look what happened to us!" and realize that every time they send beautiful Apache helicopters and F16 aircraft, the purpose is also to kill women and children. How many people died in Afghanistan? They carpet bombed day and night, and a number was never released. One hundred sixty thousand? Who were those people? In Madrid were there 196 of 197? They were counted one by one.

Q. Is terror the only way to make people aware of this?

Terror is the language of the twenty-first century. If I want something, I terrorize you to achieve it. To support George Bush is a kind of terrorism. To support Al Qaeda is the same. Everybody is involved. Every Muslim is a terrorist, every non-Muslim is a terrorist. This is the "time of killing." It is predicted in the divine text. Muhammad said: "I am the prophet of mercy," but he also said:" I am the prophet of massacre." The word "terrorism" is not new among Muslims. Muhammad said: "I am the prophet who laughs when he's killing the enemy." It is not only a question of killing. Its laughing while we are killing.

Q. Do you believe there will be a big attack in London?

It's inevitable. Several attacks are being prepared by several groups. I regret that, because the first thing the government will do after that is to deport me, along with my family.

Q. Many people say you belong to Al Qaeda.

It's an honor that people are saying that. They don't associated me with belly dancers or homosexuals but with the best people that ever existed, after the Prophet and his companions. Nobody had ever dreamed of such a deed, to launch airplanes against two skyscrapers. Al Qaeda is not a group one can join.

Q. But they have cells in Europe.

They have cells with a mission. And the missions are always suicide missions. That's why when we uncover a cell it no longer exists.

Q. When a group wants to stage an attack, do they contact Al Qaeda?

No. People are recruited. They stay in sleeper cells, behaving normally, with low profiles, waiting for a mission. It will be their first and last mission. it will be their first and last mission. That's why it is impossible for the police to infiltrate Al Qaeda.

Q. Who many members does Al Qaeda have?

About 11,000. They gather, they spread all over the world, and they gather again. If they didn't recruit, they would disappear, because their destiny is death. It's time for Bin Laden himself and his companions to die.

Q. Bin Laden will commit suicide?

Q. If Bin Laden dies will Al Qaeda survive?

Of course. They were a group, but now they are a phenomenon. September 11 made Muslims understand that they have power. A new chapter of history has begun. That's why we have initiated a new calendar. We are now in the Year Three of Al Qaeda era. Many youths dream of joining Al Qaeda, and there are many freelance groups ready to launch operations similar to Al Qaeda's. The Madrid attack was committed by one of those groups.

Q. Are there many of those freelance groups in Europe?

Q. When do we know an attack is really from Al Qaeda?

It's easy. First, they are always large-scale operations. The operative has to make sure he kills the most people possible. Second, Al Qaeda always leaves its fingerprints: a clue, like a car with the Koran inside, or a tape to be found by the police. Third, the attacks always occur in two or three places at the same time. Finally, the language. I just need to read one sentence in their communiqués to recognize their doctrinal accuracy: there's no sign of nationalism, they never all themselves Arabs or Palestinians, just Muslims. They always speak of martyrdom, of death.

Q. What does Al Qaeda want?

Terror. They are engaged in a defensive jihad against those who attacked Islam. In the long run, they want to reestablish the Islamic state, the Caliphate. And to convert the whole world.

Q. Can the United States negotiate with Al Qaeda?

Al Qaeda is, by nature, an invisible entity, not a state. Once they knock down the corrupt governments of Muslim states, replace them with Islamic governments, and rebuild the Caliphate, they could, as a state, negotiate with the United States. First, they will say: We will give you the oil and we will live in peace on condition that we can spread Islam freely in the West. If the Americans don't allow us to do so, then the Caliphate will have to declare war.

Q. Aren't Muslims living here more interested in assimilating?

Muslims first immigrated in the 1940's for economic reasons. They were called "Pakis" and "Coconuts," and mistreated. They didn't care: they were only concerned about food and shelter. The second generation assimilated: the children were called "Bobby," and listened to Madonna. We have come to tell them they are members of a great nation, and that this is not their culture. There are 50 million Muslims in the West. The next step is to convert the Westerners. We started by giving self-esteem back to Muslims living here.

Q. Don't you fear that the terrorist attacks make Westerners hate Islam?

The number of conversions increased a lot after September 11.

Q. If you had freedom to spread Islam, would it be easy to convert Westerners?

No doubt about it. Because the West has no answers about the meaning of life and death, which is life's biggest challenge. Western culture is not more than entertainment. Before September 11, I used to go to every campus in this country, giving lectures. Every time, I have many conversions to Islam. Of British people, blond, blue-eyed.

Q. Before September 11 they allowed you to do that freely?

I never broke the law. In 1990, I issued a fatwa against the prime minister. I said, number one, that every Muslim had the obligation to kill him. Police arrested me the same day. But, number two, I said the fatwa was for every Muslim except those living legally in the U.K., which meant no Muslim under my jurisdiction. They released me.